Artists and friends Anton Kannemeyer and Conrad Botes have been making art together for close to four decades. In this interview, they talk about their unique friendship and artistic collaboration.
Anton, Conrad, your new book Bitterkomix Sketchbooks & Journals shows clearly that your collaboration extends far beyond the working relationship needed to produce a comic like Bitterkomix. You’ve been friends for many years; the book confirms that you often travel and holiday together. You’ve even included a section, ‘Doubles’, where both of you have drawn the same scene or image. Please comment on your remarkable friendship. When did you first think, I made a lifelong friend? What was your first trip together?
Anton: We were friends since our first year at varsity, in 1988. At first, we only surfed together, but then in the winter holiday of 1989 we drew our first comic together (published shortly after in Stet). That collaboration went so seamlessly that it was clear that we can in fact work together. We did a lot of silk-screening together as well, and for me it was like having an extra pair of arms and hands. Of course, through the years there were some hiccups; it’s to be expected, both of us being ambitious and focussed on our art careers. But in the end, I realised that if it goes well with one of us, it goes well with the other. Also, the Bitterkomix project was more important than individual egos. Sometimes you have to stand back, the better idea should always have preference.
Conrad: Well, there was never a moment where I thought I made a lifelong friend. When we met at Stellenbosch university we immediately got along and started making drawings together and working together. The first trip we undertook was to hitchhike from Stellenbosch to Johannesburg at the end of our first year at uni.
How do the doubles work? How do you decide what image to draw? I found the same kind of doubling in two paintings of a chair by Van Gogh and Gauguin.
Conrad: These are normally inspired by things we see or find while travelling together. Sometimes it’s totally random images that we find in magazines or newspapers, which we’ll draw at least once. Some images survive for quite a long time and are drawn multiple times. Sometimes we actively decide to sit down and draw the same thing, like the rocks by the sea in Réunion Island (Pointe au Sel, page 206). At other times, one of us would make a drawing which the other would then also draw. For instance, Anton took a picture of our friend Gael at a dinner party, of which he made his famous braaibroodjie drawing. I liked it so much that I also made a drawing of the photo and used the same text.
Anton: We often travel with found images that are interesting, maybe an interesting composition or subject matter. Then we draw it and place it within a personal or conceptual context. You’ll be surprised, but sometimes you don’t know what to draw next – or you don’t feel like drawing your hotel room, or a boring landscape in front of you… Are there other artist pairs you know about that have this kind of friendship? Usually these involve a mentor–student thing, like Warhol and Basquiat, or people who were couples, like Gilbert & George.
Anton: With us it’s not a mentor–student thing at all: we have both been professional artists now for many years. As students there was maybe rivalry, but never a case of one instructing the other. We both have a good sense of humour, which helps the conceptual side of things. Our skill sets are a bit different, which is important, I think. Conrad has a better visual memory than I have, my work is more calculated, classic if you want. He’s the romantic. The thing is that comic art especially requires quite a few different skills: just being able to draw a nice picture is not going to get you very far. Someone recently compared us to Dionysus and Apollo: Conrad is passionate, irrational, and about the ecstatic experience. I am for structure and reason. It’s not entirely true, of course: no chaotic person can do good printmaking by himself. But to answer your question, Pop groups often split up because of ego and creative differences. We allow each other a lot of freedom and also do (mostly) solo work. Some overseas publishers and galleries prefer my work to Conrad’s and vice versa. I guess we’re just lucky to still have the same vision and share the same outlook on life. And no, apart from Gilbert & George, I don’t know of that many collaborations where each artist stands on his or her own. Aline Crumb definitely stood in Robert Crumb’s shadow. The Hernandez brothers publish independently of each other. I don’t know: is it important?
Someone recently compared us to Dionysus and Apollo: Conrad is passionate, irrational, and about the ecstatic experience. I am for structure and reason.
Conrad: People that work together? In the art world it is quite rare, Dinos and Jake Chapman come to mind. In the comics world it is more common, one such team (that has since split up) is Philip Dupuy and Charles Berbérian. Their comprehensive publication of their drawing books was, in fact, an inspiration for ours.
Do you share interests that aren’t related to drawing? I know Conrad likes to flyfish. Do you fish, Anton?
Anton: No, I don’t fish. But we still surf together; we’re both into cooking and wine collecting. We share interests in culture: music, books, art, and films. Our kids are friends. We also share a passion for gardening and trees … and landscapes.
There is more than one drawing in the book showing you needing to escape during a plane catastrophe. It reminded me of that scene in Fight Club where they amend those emergency evacuation instructions. Who’s the more nervous traveller of the two?
Anton: I’m definitely the more nervous traveller. Although there was a recent incident at St. Denis’s Airport that may suggest otherwise … The truth is, I can’t stand flying: I’m far too tall for the seats, I do not fit as I have long legs and they immediately get stuck in the seat in front of me. And then I have to sit like that for twelve hours, sometimes much longer. I always try to get an escape-door seat, and mostly end up there. Hence the drawings. Conrad: I don’t mind flying at all. I see it as a semi-unpleasant thing you have to do to get from SA to wherever else it is you need to be. I am lucky that I can fall asleep very randomly and at will. I tell people I suffer from narcolepsy, haha!
What don’t you share?
Conrad: I spend quite a lot of time flyfishing, often in very remote locations. One of the main attractions (apart from the obvious exposure to raw nature, etc.) is the isolation from people, emails, phone calls. Not talking or speaking (or speaking very little) for hours, even days.
Anton: I’m an avid book collector; I love spending time in second-hand bookshops. I’m also a bit of a cricket fan, not so much any other sport. Maybe tennis. Conrad certainly doesn’t like tennis or table tennis, which I play quite a lot.
Speaking about male friendships, a writer friend recently commented on how wrong a scene from Sally Rooney’s novel Conversations with Friends got it: two guys meet for the first time, go for a swim and start talking about ‘feelings’ straight away … But how did your friendship evolve over these past decades?
Anton: I read that about the male friendship in Rooney’s novel. I was wondering about ‘gender appropriation’ there … haha. I think generally we talk about practical things, especially things concerning art. How to resolve a problem in a work or comic – it could be something conceptual or sometimes even formal. Recently, Conrad pointed out a hand in a comic scene that needed shadow, just to reveal the angle a bit better. I suggested a different ending in a new comic of his. We mostly talk about projects that we want to do, or upcoming collaborations. Feelings … not so much. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever asked him how he ‘feels’ …? Sometimes we talk about politics, but the truth is that the incredible division between left and right, the outrage of the left, all of that, is just the media and politicians instilling fear. Fear keeps politicians in power and is lucrative for the media.
Conrad: We were very close friends from the start, and I don’t think we have grown closer as friends since then. But I think we both did grow up over the years and there’s definitely less professional pressure between us now. I also think the fact that we’re completely honest with each other is key. Anton, in the introductory interview in the book, you say Conrad’s drawing books are his most important work, and that your journals hold the most value. Statements like these make this publication very meaningful. What normally happens to artists’ sketchbooks? What will happen to yours when your aeroplane finally crashes into the sea?
Anton: Haha! That’s quite a sinister question … maybe sarcastic as well? I’ve been thinking about what I said there actually, and I’m not sure that I agree with it anymore. I think that Conrad made some incredible comics, which may turn out to be his most important work after all. Of course, he made excellent paintings and prints and drawings as well. It’s all a bit ridiculous in the end: I grew up in a literary house where a lot of value was placed in books, signed first editions, etc. Museums and libraries were of the utmost importance. I started my first series of collected works when I was thirteen … My mind is geared towards identifying what is valuable and preserving that.
What I tried to say there was that even if morals and interests change in the next few decades, my journals will remain as evidence of a certain period: as artefacts, if not as art pieces. And Conrad’s sketchbooks also serve as journals, even if his writing is not as evident. A researcher will be able to understand a lot of his life and thinking if they study those. Anyway, I’m not sure about the vast number of sketchbooks currently out there: everyone seems to be making one. Sometimes I think we’re just here keeping ourselves busy until we die. And, no, I don’t travel with my sketchbooks – I may lose the last one when the aeroplane finally crashes. The rest will hopefully one day end up in an archive. Together, if possible, although I must admit I sold two of my travelling journals. This was shortly after I almost lost one of them. Conrad: I have stipulated in my will that my daughter, Nell, gets all my drawing books in the event that I ‘get hit by a bus’. If I live for a few more decades, some of my books might find their way into some special collections.
